Salford Riots

I’m just in from work – it’s taken me five hours to travel a mile and half.  I’d been in Salford City just four hours before to pick up my new glasses.  Old ladies were buying groceries, young mums topping up on hair products, the precinct the usual busy, sociable hub it always is.  Somebody always stops and says hello, ‘Are you really a vicar…?’  Today we had a laugh in the opticians because they have a £5 eye test promotion and the woman on the phone could be heard to respond to her caller, ‘No not £5 for one eye, it’s £5 for BOTH eyes…’ and we all fell about laughing.

There were rumours of riots then and I knew it was false, but by the time I drove home, I was pulling up behind the BBC van that was later torched (not ten minutes after I’d decided to park mine in a car park a little way away as we were on double yellows).

Lots of riot police, lots of vans, thousands of spectators, and a handful of teenage hoodies with bricks and stones, more mouth than action.  The police did a really good job of dispersing them over an hour and a half and it seemed that all was quiet.

But just a couple of lads and one drunk elderly man began pulling at bargain Booze’s shutters, as another kicked cracks into the bank’s door.  He was drunk and angry and clearly hated the police, and judging by the first name terms he was no stranger to them either.

To cut a long story short some of us ended up ‘kettled’ while the police at either end of the precincts kept control of the lads with the stones.  I was wearing my dog collar being on my way home which made this experience all the more surreal.

As some men picked up half bricks and got in line to lob them at police vans, the action shifted from one place to another so no matter where you stood you ended up in the thick of it at some point.  Bizarrely, whenever it came near me, one or other of them (yes, the brick throwers) would basically halt fire and ensure I was somewhere safe (even to escorting and physically shielding me from rocks) before giving the OKay for more missile throwing.

I was being protected by the people instigating the violence!

More bizarrely still, during the lulls many men came and spoke with me.  Young, old, missile throwers, spectators, residents, the employed and the unemployed.

They all had a story, they all had a theory.  We’ve heard them all so I wont recount them.  And there was a grain of truth in every one.  Then some of the youths set fire to Salix: a place that enables people to find somewhere to live.  People began to get really pissed off with the ‘bored young lads destroying our community’ as one bloke put it.

I spoke with the reporter whose car was set on fire just moments before.  He seemed really shaken and later some residents told me that the lads had set on him for filming/recording/photographing them – after all it would count as ‘evidence’.  And there I was with hundreds of others with my iPhone out seemingly completely immune.

Oddly, one man put down his golf club (being used to smash shop windows) when he saw my collar.  He went red and nodded at me.  Others put down stolen goods, and still others walked up to proclaim their disgust at what was happening.  But as the drinking (‘free beer!’ (stolen from the aforementioned Bargain Booze)) got underway, cars screeched into the area that clearly were the organised element of the criminal culture and I thought it wise to cover up.

As I watched from the thick of black smoke billowing from a burned out car, talking to residents of the blocks of flats in direct line of the fire, I watched teenagers loot an electrical good sole trader’s shop.  Don’t get me wrong when I say this, but if they’d nicked the TVs and laptops I could almost understand it, but they simply brought them outside and smashed them to bits in the street.

Young girls on alcopops ‘dared’ each other to go and nick something.  Lads tried to break onto Lidl and set fire to it, and mothers sent small children in to fill shopping bags with food and beer because they are too young to be arrested.  I wasn’t the only one challenging some of this – other residents were trying to talk sense into those who had somehow lost all sense of their normal boundaries but it seemed like one big joke to a mass of hysterical people laughing all the way to the bank.  How could anyone putt their children in such a dangerous position, never mind ask them to commit crimes?

Suddenly a mass exodus: the precint had been compromised and there were shouts of ‘iPhones! Xboxes! Everything!  You can get whatever you want!’ Hoodies went up and scarfs went over faces, in they went and more ‘respectable’ cars started arriving to collect the goods.  Youths started arriving with hammers and the women and girls backed off.  What appalled me most were the amount of families, and I mean kids in the back seat, involved in all of this.  Like some kind of surreal supermarket sweep, winner takes all, what a larrrff! Children hung out of their car windows video-ing it all on their mobiles.

I could smell cannabis on the street, big time, and of course everyone had beer and wine bottles in hand from the looting.  The police were just a focus for all of the aggressive energy, and watching what was going on, I felt that letting them loot themselves out would be preferable to seeing them turn back on the police and smash all of the allegedly bullet proof windows in yet again – and take another pummeling with potentially lethal missiles.

I left just half an hour ago, as I was able to leave once the police vans were smashed up and they retreated temporarily.  Amazingly, just a few hundred yards away all is at peace and the riot is ‘on TV‘.  My clothes stink of smoke and I want to weep with rage at a society that has disenfranchised so many for so long whilst brainwashing two/three generations of children to want, want, want!  I can still hear the sheer joy in that lads voice, ‘X-boxes! iPhones! You can get whatever you want!’  All of his empty dreams being fulfilled – well temporarily anyway.

I also feel a kind of empty, shocked sorrow that I heard young children being taught to hate the police as they arrived, that parents would send them into dark, dangerous buildings to loot to feed their own greed, happy to teach them that stealing and looting and robbing and mindless waste and destruction are ‘funny’, because if I heard that once I heard it a thousand times tonight.  ’I just think it’s funny!’

I saw the faces of police personnel, hardened with concentration for the task at hand, while people laughed at the potential damage they would inflict on somebody else’s wife, son, daughter, mother.

The trouble is, we do have a two tier society without a doubt, and while bankers have been allowed their bonuses having stitched us up every which way, we will continue to pay for this in more ways than one, and tonight is just one of them.  With the cuts aimed primarily at the poor and the needy and the disenfranchised, things can only get worse.

And what will we do?  Continue to promulgate the values that have created this deadly cocktail of haves and have-nots, faithless, hopeless people who have been taught that consumerism is a recreational right and all moral and religious education completely nonsensical?  Surely THIS is nonsensical?!

Please God that we wake up and smell the coffee, before we condemn yet another generation (no pun intended).

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About chaplainmediacityuk

First Chaplain to MediaCityUK and Coordinator of The Anchor project.
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87 Responses to Salford Riots

  1. Mandy S says:

    Thank you for writing this. I am sure that your presence there made a difference even though parts of it sound like the seventh circle of Hell. Lighten our darkness, Lord we pray..

  2. It’s amazing that those who commit the most wrongs know the most rights

  3. Melanie says:

    Im afraid that even God would hang his head in shame….after creating a beautiful planet, for it to be destroyed by the very things he to placed on earth to look after it.

    i dont consider myself religious but this planet is my home and for mindless thugs..(because thats what they are) to destroy the places that are trying to help them ( housing offices)…its mindnumbing….

    These people can give all the theories they like…we havent got enough food, we havent got enough money…..Hey….an idea!…Get a job….pay your way….earn a living…then perhaps, instead of being out in the streets, you would be at home trying to protect the very things you are taking from shops……because after doing a decent hard days work, like the rest of us….you would also be too bloomin tired!…

    Just another theory!

  4. Kate says:

    In turn, I’ve just come back from an hour and a half standing above the precinct with locals of various ages but mostly young. They were furious with the witless and random violence and looting and damage, some worried whether they will have jobs to go to in Tesco etc in the morning. I had to be there, in my adoptive (even if only temporarily) home, to see such mindless idiocy. I was heartened by the view of most – sadly in the minority – whilst also somewhat uncomprehending of the brazen groups wandering past me with stuff under their arms. I’ll be there in the morning, trying to help if there’s a clear up. And I’ll be praying for sense and the level of community care for each other and pride in their community that I heard about from the onlookers tonight. Thankyou Hayley for your presence and your witness. Sleep safe.

  5. Morgenstiern says:

    Very well written.

  6. Kate Feld says:

    Thank you for writing this. It brought tears to my eyes, but it helped me understand what is really happening. We have so much work to do.

  7. Pants says:

    What Kate Feld said.

    This is one of the reasons my husband didn’t want to have children – who’d want to bring up children in a world where this happens.

  8. Clare D says:

    Thank you. I believe you have exactly and succinctly summarised where we all are. Not just the rioters and looters, but all of us.

  9. Barbara says:

    You really had me onside until the disenfranchised end. There is no excuse for the nation encouraging the acceptance of the ‘Shameless’ society. Mothers should take a firm grasp of their wanton children & teach them the power of the word no. No underage drinking. No caving in to unrealistic materialistic demands. Show respect for everyone & everything – & encourage respect in return. Work and reap the rewards, literally and psychologically. There needs to be a mother’s rebellion & a return to
    England’s culture; the dying art of good behaviour. All this and not a religious bone in my body.

  10. Socrates says:

    Really fantastic post, thanks for writing it.

  11. Sam says:

    This is a disturbing read. I recently moved away from Manchester and to watch the news last night was thoroughly depressing. As an atheist, however, I have to point out that, as far as I am concerned, faithlessness is not a relevant point here (I’m sure you can argue otherwise, and I’m not trying to start anything, promise!).

    The issues are, as you say, this two-tier society and the consumerism/celebrity that is thrust in everybody’s face; mixed with a lack of education (or even empathy?) that makes *some* people think that if they get away with it, it becomes acceptable behaviour.

  12. Chris says:

    The perpetrators of the violence and crime in Salford and Manchester last night are not a ‘disenfranchised’ youth. They are the result of a soft society which no longer sets boundaries or consequences. The video of one being interviewed by a BBC reporter summed up their attitude, “it’s all free tonight, what can they (the police) do to us.”

    Until we again start to teach respect this will only get worse.

  13. Simon says:

    Great, if surreal read.

  14. Meg Howarth says:

    A most moving piece. Thank you. As an atheist, my only quibble is with your penultimate para where you imply that lack of faith and morality are behind the riots. Certainly the latter but we should also ask whether the bankers/politicians/bourgeois Establishment have morality? You may have heard London-based French journalist Agnes Poirier on BBC R4 this morning: ‘London is the epitome of inequality. Profit, consumption & speculation are it’s holy trinity’. As a northern born and raised but long-time London dweller, I agree with her wholeheartedly.

    And a final tragic ironic note: Greater Manchester police vans were seen in Islington (where I live) last night, helping keep London calm and safe.

    Note: this is the second time this morning that I’ve tweeted comments by citizens of faith. St Pauls Giles Fraser was on BBC R4 earlier exhorting us all to more kindness towards others. Have to applaud that vigorously.

    Thank you again.

  15. Joanne Barker-Marsh says:

    Hello

    I felt the same sense of, if you take away the things some of these people expect, benefits etc, then they will need to fill the gap, these people are angry, a smothered society and sometimes sub layered society, as you say, the orgnisers came in to take the loot…

    I am saddened but primarily unsurprised, we reap what we sow and this applies to all our our society, two tiered or not. You talk a lot of sense and this was very refreshing to read, thank you

    Joanne

  16. thank you all for your comments, I really appreciate you taking the time to write, and some have given me food for thought. Peace, Hayley

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  18. Praying for peace, praying for the community, praying for victims, praying for you!

    God Bless.

    Mike

  19. Jude Gibbons says:

    Thank you for this article, and for the fact that you were there listening to what people had to say at first-hand.

    Boris Johnson appeared on the radio this morning to complain about the “sense of entitlement” that young people seem to have. People of his class have always had a sense of entitlement: to have what they want and to get where they want to in life. Working class people should also be allowed a sense of entitlement: to education, to a decent job that pays a reasonable wage and to self-respect and respect for others. This has been taken away from them, and now they are taking an opportunity to grasp at a different sort of entitlement: to do and have what *they* want.

    The lack of social responsibility *is* a problem with parenting, and it does need to be instilled at a very young age, but when those parents are sometimes barely out of childhood themselves, and have been brought up in the same environment, with two or maybe three generations of workless people behind them and with no hope of a decent job themselves, then how can we expect them suddenly to become model parents after being disenfranchised youth?

    Something that made my blood run cold when I heard it, and still does, is the quote from John Major in 1993: ‘Society needs to condemn a little more and understand a little less.’ If we as a society think that *understanding less* is a progressive way forward, we are truly lost.

  20. S keene says:

    Illuminating and thoughtful account. Inequalities are surely at the heart of this. People continue to see bankers and finance people, and company executives, rewarded with riches beyond imagination for actions that are bringing misery to so many. ‘Celebraties’ get rich seemingly just for existing in the public gaze.

    There are calls for parents to control their children, but what about parents who have to take on evening and night work? This economy itself is destructive of family life.

    These are explanations, justification.

  21. Thank you so much for this, Hayley. A very perceptive commentary on a frightening experience. Lord, have mercy.

    Take care.

  22. Damian says:

    What a moving commentary. We have ‘normal’ people putting down the golf club and looking shamefaced at the sight of a clerical collar, and vandals and rioters protecting its wearer. It’s as if there is a deep-seated sense of morality (honour among thieves??) among some people while at he same time people are sucked into the group suspension of morality which says that it’s OK for seemingly respectable families to involve themseleves and their children in robbery. This is the paradox that has exercised my mind since Saturday. Comparisons with the earlier Broadwater Farm, Toxteth and others are little help: it is one thing to be angry at government over poll tax, cuts even, and we know that anger can spill over into violence with collateral damage, but when society responds by an overwhelming greed, we, or at least I, have lost the plot. I can pray, but (forgive my weak faith) it seems so inadequate!
    Thank you for this disturbing, and moving piece.

  23. Thank you for writing this Hayley – a moving and disturbing post.

  24. bruce welks says:

    Good article but let’s not promote this issue as a reason for Religious Education.

  25. Rich says:

    Yes, what’s needed here is more knowledge of the man who said “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

    You should be thrilled, you religious hypocrites.

  26. CC says:

    I watched the riots from my flat which is just near Lidl. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. It was free entertainment …not only for the looters but for entire familes who watched and let their kids watch and even go into the shops to fetch ‘free’ stuff!. I feel disgusted with the absence of the moral values I have witnessed last night. I can only hardly believe this has happened.

  27. Pablo says:

    Thanks for a great post. As someone from up the road in Oldham, I find the characters you describe real and their motivations familiar and, to be honest, understandable. Many of us are excluded from the Good Life of Nike trainers, regular holidays, big TVs, iPhones, nice houses and so on. We know that these things don’t make you a good person or a worthwhile individual and yet somehow we feel branded as failures for not having them. Worse still, some of the time our kids feel second-rate for not having all this stuff and look down the line and see not vistas of opportunity, just more of the same.

    How many of these rioters have got good jobs, prospects or live in nice areas? Probably a few. But not many.

    As many have said before, this doesn’t make it right. But if we don’t want more riots and looting, we need a more equal society where the poorest aren’t cut adrift and the rich may as well be living on another planet.

  28. Richard says:

    Great reportage of the sort that would never get to grace the pages of one of our so called ‘news’ papers., but I must disagree with your general rant against bankers; I come from an Air Force family, I was a refugee twice before I was eleven, shot at and refilled by foreigners and ignored in forgotten by my own countrymen. I went to school in Liverpool in the ‘seventies when to be a Forces’ kid was to be living below the poverty line and where we had kids going round in bare feet. I served my country in Northern Ireland only to be redundant, having to take a much lower paid
    job. I had to run to work because I couldn’t afford the bus fair and had to live for a month on £20. I used to run to work past beggars who had more in their cups than I’d live on for a week and who would clearly go hungry much less than I.
    Now I have three degrees gained by sacrifice, sacrifice and more sacrifice. I work for the largest professional services firm in the world and have just taken up a post in Australia. Everything I have I have achieved through my own sweat and sacrifice and I have no time for those feckless lazy scum who get what they want through violence and theft.

  29. Meg Howarth says:

    Confirmation via my local London Islington newspaper @IslingtonTrib that ‘Greater Manchester Police sent 100 officers to London last night, including Islington. GMP insist it didn’t hinder response in Manchester’.

    Re Richard, above, and bankers: what’s your comment on £14bn – yes £bn – in bonuses alone last year? Was this ‘earned’, deserved? And what about the unearned income from property-price inflation, particularly visible here in London – which makes housing unavailable to young people? Less than five minutes from where I live house-prices have risen by a factor of 12 since the late 1980s, and now fetch around £2m.

  30. UKViewer says:

    A sad and perceptive post. So much has been said and written about this, but unless you are trapped in the middle of it, as you were, they cannot have a real perspective.

    I find so much truth in what you have said that I find it hard to pick out one single aspect, I suppose the most shaming one is the acknowledgement that we, as a society, have failed our successive younger generations. sense of

    I am at a loss to actually think that there is a cure, unless we are able to restore a sense of right and wrong into the generations who have missed out on it, than we have a huge problem for the future of our country and people.

    Those here, who have decried the teaching of religion, ignore the good that it does. It introduces young people to the idea of there being a set of moral values that are worth upholding and living by, whether or not they believe in God or some other deity.

    Most of all, they explain that respect for yourself and for others is a basic human right and value, which allows us to live together in harmony. If this is missing from our society, we need to find some way of instilling it into our young people, and in some cases their parents who condone or encourage them them on in this lawlessness.

  31. Absolutely wonderful post – sounds like a rollercoaster of emotions and experiences few of us will encounter.

    Have shared onwards.

  32. John says:

    I watched the destruction of the precinct from my front door last night. While this is an excellent description of the events, the conclusion is flawed, and as we figure out how to rebuild an entirely broken community, entirely misleading. The problem is not want, or a ‘two-tier’ society, but values. Many of the people involved last night were not ‘poor’ by any sense of the word. They came from families which in many cases have, by choice, not worked for generations, yet have still been able to feed, with a clear sense of entitlement, a lifestyle which the genuinely poor people would envy. That parents and younger siblings were, as you say, arriving in rather nice cars to pick up their loot only confirms this. You should remember that this area of Salford has had tens of millions of European and UK funding thrown at it in the last decade – Pendleton and Langworthy had clearly not been forgotten by central government.
    No, last night was evidence that a considerable minority of people in Salford lack any real sense of morality or ethical awareness. There could be any number of reasons for this, but to blame poverty is simply barking up the wrong tree.
    Let’s hope the rain keeps up!

    • Thanks for your comment, John. I agree that not all of the people involved were ‘poor’, but much of the general disaffection does stem from worklessness and the lack of salary that goes with that. I think that the whole eruption is a convergence of all of the points raised coming together in a flash point. And yes, hurrah for the rain!

  33. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write this, Hayley. I’m not sure I quite accept the idea that anyone is disenfranchised in Britain, but it’s clear that our moral compass as a society is adrift. I wonder whether the “celebrity” lifestyle, with its emphasis on material possessions and refusal to accept any exterior authority, is also a factor, setting up unreal expectations and contributing to a (misplaced) sense of entitlement. The young lad’s “iPhones, xBox” comment was especially poignant for me.

  34. A Torry Quine says:

    Sad, sad, sad but unsurprised as we have sat back and created a society drip fed on loads of media rubbish that gives out the message that you are only someone if you are rich, famous, beautiful & in more than one instance completely thick. No where do we promote the values of being a good person or being an intelligent person. You saw them last night, kids being dragged up by people with the IQ of a gnat and absolutely no values. I agree social depavity has added to this but the main focus should be education, at an early age especially for families where the parents can’t provide any input.

  35. Pablo says:

    Richard, I applaud what you have achieved and I’m sorry that you had a hard time as a kid. Surely as you look back over your achievements you see individuals who helped, inspired and sustained you, opportunities that you were fortunate to see as well as being resourceful and diligent in taking.

    Your success at coming from a deprived background to lots of qualifications and a good job is, you must know, exceptional. On the other hand, if you’d gone to public school, you might take your current level of attainment absolutely for granted.

    I believe that morality is ultimately the business of the individual and we must all be responsible for our actions, but equally we take our decisions based on our experiences, education and our place in the world as it is portrayed to us. We are also responsible for each other. It’s wrong that kids in poor areas of Salford have the odds stacked against them and we live in a society affluent enough to do something about it if we choose to.

  36. John Coghlan says:

    I am living in Canada, but am touched by the riots and especially touched by your description of them. The rioting, I believe, is a symtom as you have pointed out, of hopeless youth contrasted with a consumer culture. Erich Fromm, the psychiatrist, pointed out in a seminal book that the roots of violence are in powerlessness. People imagined dreams on the canvas of their lives, but didn’t have or believe they had, the means to ”paint” such a picture of their life. They became, like the youth with dreams but no means, violent.
    What has happened is similar to what is happening in the middle east. Governments have tended to respond more to large monied interests than peoples’ interests. Corporations – note how these riots come on the heels of the Murdoch scandal, have come to weaken democracy throuh lobbying and financial support of government. The solutions: laws to ensure that corporations cannot ”buy” government agendas favourable to themselves; government more responsive to human needs through less vertical-bureaucratic, flatter organisations.

  37. Pingback: Final post #UKriots « vfxhanley's Blog

  38. Anna says:

    Oh Hayley, what a surreal experience. Your words have much to teach.

  39. Pingback: A Christian Reflection on the London Riots — Goannatree

  40. David says:

    Although Christian myself, I think we should be careful about looking opportunistic, there is nothing wrong with praying for the situation but, while it probably was not your intention, some people will see you as trying to use the riots to promote your church. We don’t want to look opportunistic like the Labour supporters who are blaming the Tory cuts.

  41. layanglicana says:

    This is a powerful piece, Hayley, as the record number of comments attest. For me the most chilling, because the most inexplicable, statement that you heard was one of the onlookers finding it ‘funny’.

    • Yes, that was so odd. As if it was all a game at somebody else’s expense. There were others rightly shocked and outraged, and other residents close to tears, but many of those involved just didn’t seem to take it seriously. Thanks for commenting.

  42. Meg Howarth says:

    Thanks to John Coghlan for the Erich Fromm mention. This from Twitter by @TonyBarretTimes:
    ‘The debate over society’s ills will go nowhere if anyone trying to understand the reasons for riots is castigated for not condemning them’.

    Readers of this blog might like to note that Channel 4 is to host a debate on the riots this Saturday night: http://t.co/ldnriOh. Meantime, this another perceptive piece from Channel 4′s Krishnan Guru-Murthy: ‘Is our ruling class clueless on the riots? http://bit.ly/p1SBNY‘. Comments will be welcom – just about to submit mine.

  43. Emma says:

    This is such an interesting and thought provoking article. Thank you for writing it.

  44. Due to this blog, I have been invited to join a panel on C4 news 7.15-7.30pm ish this evening. I hope that depsite being a newcomer I can speak up for this community.

  45. My dad tells of a story of his youth. It is quite bizarre and I really don’t mean to undermine your account as you were in a really violent situation and you really are a vicar. I just saw a similarity in how you were ‘cared for’ by the very people who everyone else was under attack from. Back to the story of my dad . Well rightly or wrongly (wrongly I imagine) he dressed up as a vicar once and went to a gambling den. He tells of men who standing round tables taking bets, swearing, smoking and just being rather rude. However, as soon as they saw him he was apologized to and other men in the group who continued to swear were kept in check by others who alerted them to the fact they were in the presence of a man of the cloth. Your story heartened me, in all of us we have a calling to a higher self, an acknowledgment that we are greater and bigger by design than we ever imagined ourselves to be. I am glad you were kettled, I am so grateful that you were able to allow them to connect to something in themselves that instinctively knows good from bad, you seem to have connected them with their ‘God consciousness’ . I do not align myself with any religion but I do follow a path and that path is so narrow sometimes and calls me to live my life in a way that I feel I cannot do…. sometimes……but I do keep doing the next right thing despite it all. There are many people like you who have showed up in my life and reminded me that I am worth another chance and I managed to turn my life around as a result. I didn’t realise I would reveal so much about myself, but thank you for being you.

  46. Meg Howarth says:

    Bravo for the C4 invite. I’ll be watching (at 8). Best. We need you!

  47. Chris Goan says:

    Glad you came through it all OK- and thanks for the really thoughtful post…

    Cheers

    Chris

  48. Pingback: A vicar in a riot… « this fragile tent

  49. “iPhones, Xboxes, you can get whatever you want!” Creepy. I don’t know where this comes from. I am not Christian, but I am a “believer” and I can say that a big problem with the West is that we don’t really believe in anything now. Even zealotry seems better.

    I am all about keeping aid and social programs, but it all has to be matched/earned. Here in Vancouver, the city will soon be distributing CAN$50,000(£30,000) of clean crack pipes in a harm reduction campaign… Yes, empirically speaking, it may work, but it’s a risk and a slap in the face to working people. The UK seems to be going to a decentralized model of government, so therefore as services become reduced, it has be small rewards based (“Oh, you stopped this, well we have a grant available” etc.).

  50. Revd Raindogs says:

    Brilliant essay – I’m a vicar, too – great incarnational compassion and anger.

  51. Steve says:

    Thank you for sharing this. I live in New York City — another capital of global finance where far too many live according to the rule of “you are what you spend” — and I fear that this is a glimpse into our future. As in the UK, we’re being told that now that the bankers have had their fun, it’s the people at the very bottom rungs who need to “sacrifice” in order to clean up the mess.

    I’ve visited the UK on several occasions and always come away with memories of wonderful places and wonderful people. I’m watching these events from afar with great sadness.

  52. kylemcc899 says:

    It looks like the high police presence is finally having some sort of effect, hopefully at least. http://kylemccann.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/anarchy-in-the-uk/

  53. Carl says:

    My take is big one this one.
    - Consumerism stems from materialism.
    - Materialism was strengthened in 1927 by a conference (Solvay, Belgium) of physicists which voted FOR chance (dice rather than determinism) playing a fundamental role in the nature of the universe.
    - Materialism was invented by Pope Urban VIII in 1633 when he separated the church from science (Galileo) and gave science the ethos that it should base its work strictly on the material, and leave G-dly matters to the church.
    This split told the world that matter is separate from G-d. IT ISNT. HE IS THE SOURCE. The split has hampered both sides because with the ethos in mind science is incapable of finding G-d and has to rely on ‘dice’ (and believe it or not magic) instead. In a similar vein the church is restricted to promulgating the idea of a magical disconnected G-d who works by invisible strings. Both sides have it wrong. G-d is visible AND science doesn’t need to rely on magic to explain disconnected forces (e.g.) gravity. And the church doesn’t need to rely on ‘superstition’ to explain itself. Neither are invisible, neither are magical. All is explainable.
    When the two sides eventually do re-converge (and they will, I’ve seen how), science will SUPPORT the notion that there is a G-d. It will support the notion that the soul is separate from the material. It will downplay the significance of the material in our existence. It will replace its magic with a maturity of understanding that nothing is possible without a Source.
    The trend at the moment is downwards. Polls in the third world indicate a very high acceptance of there being a Higher Power. Whilst in the ‘developed’ world that knowledge becomes scepticism (i.e. from the dice) and the polls indicate a much lower acceptance that He might be there. The trend is that materialism and science bring release from poor health (poverty etc) and replace it with comfort. But it also surreptitiously says “this is all there is to it, so you might as well take what you can get whilst it’s there”.
    THIS trend can only change by a paradigm shift in physics. A huge unseen structural bias has built up in science for the dice and magic route it has been given. A dam has been created to hold back the incongruent evidence and to keep those in favour of the dice in dry comfort. Admitting it was wrong will not be easy or cheap. But it will happen. It has to happen because the truth will always eventually be found. I know the way it will happen. I know an experiment that could cause the first crack in the dam.
    That is, the first crack in the dam that will one day burst and set free an understanding by the whole of mankind, that there is more to it than just the material. It is not just an accident. It was not just dice that brought us here. It is not a matter of take it while you can.
    Things will change and with a little help the day that dam bursts can be brought forwards a little. But without the dam bursting the downward trend WILL continue. There is nothing in sight that will stop it.
    Does anyone else there believe in the determinism of Einstein? Does anyone else want to see that crack appear in the dam of materialism?
    Carl

  54. Jane says:

    Well articulated article. Glad to see these people still had a slight bit of respect to help you.

  55. Esther Ford says:

    Excellent article – very well written – but from the point of view of an atheist who wouldn’t dream of rioting I am not sure it is fair, let alone logical, to attribute this to faithlessness.

    • Hi Esther, and the other atheists who objected to me using the word ‘faith’, let me state that it does not necessarily signify religious faith. Sure, I have faith in God (I was going to say without a doubt but as we are talking semantics, best not!) We also need to have to faith in our Government, faith that our future is bright, faith in humanity, faith in law/order the police, faith that our world won’t come tumbling down in a way that renders us completely powerless, faith that parents will bring up their children to work with society not against it etc. Many people’s faith was shattered this week, in lots of things.

      Obviously I speak as a person of religious faith because I am one, but as one that comes from an atheistic background with a (rather unexpected) adult conversion, I can say that my encounter with God totally changed my life beyond belief, and made me the person that I am today, as opposed to my giving up hope in an unjust world (which without a doubt, it is) and not fighting my way out of it (which I also believe to be down to God’s grace, knowing that I could not have moved beyond my own circumstances in my own strength). I know that you and many others will feel that they simply have this strength within them, not that is is of their Creator, but for me my journey of faith/life is an intrinsic part of perhaps understanding a little of how some of the rioters may have felt, as well as how others may have been affected by their actions, as I did feel that I could see and hear it from both sides in that moment on time watching the riot taking place whilst listening to stories of life around Salford City from those who have lived there all of their lives.

      I certainly DON’T think that all atheists behave badly or are remotely lacking in morals nor lack the ability for highly altruistic acts, and equally, we all know that people who claim a particular religious faith can often commit heinous crimes. I simply felt that I saw a complete lack of faith in ANYTHING, hence the ‘whatever’ attitude of every person for themselves.

      Hope that’s helpful – email me if you want to come back at me: chaplain@anchormediacityuk.org

      Hayley

  56. I was studying something else about this on another blog. Interesting, your perspective on it is diametrically opposed to what I read previously. I’m still mulling over the various points of view, but I’m inclined to a great extent toward yours. And regardless, that’s what is so great about advanced democracy and the marketplace of ideas on-line.

  57. Micky Munroe says:

    A really thoughtful post from the heart of the insanity witnessed this week, thank you.

  58. Meg Howarth says:

    STOP PRESS A must-read for all concerned about our society today – Peter Oborne’s piece on the UK’s ‘feral elite’: ”The moral decay of our society is as bad at the top as the bottom’: http://t.co/iui3Ul7 (from the Telegraph!). Bravo for my fellow London Islington resident.

    Blaming ‘dysfunctional families’ for the riots gets us no nearer a more socially responsible society unless we accept that families exist in a larger social context. Ignoring the effects of the bigger picture on how our children are nurtured and cared for will get us nowhere, just as demanding the eviction of those convicted of looting from social-housing will only seriously magnify the problems (inherited, unearned wealth/property is major source of inequality in the UK).

    An historical reminder: both Hitler and Stalin had two parents – as did most of the ‘crimes of passion’ life-sentence prisoners I ‘taught’ years ago (I learnt more than I taught, of that there can be no doubt). Healthy emotional development – and this is key to the shaping of our lives – needs love and affection. No amount of material well-being or inequality can eradicate that need. But gross inequality combined with emotional neglect can only be an explosive cocktail. [In haste, would like to say more.]

  59. LS says:

    >>”Excellent article – very well written – but from the point of view of an atheist who wouldn’t dream of rioting I am not sure it is fair, let alone logical, to attribute this to faithlessness.”

    Agree. Plus, blaming the “consumer culture” is also garbage. I have no car, no tv and live in a most ascetic way. Nobody is holding a gun to my head to make me buy things, let alone riot.

    It’s called free will. The blame for the rioters’ actions lay on the rioters.

  60. stay young says:

    WONDERFUL Post.thanks for share..more wait .. …

  61. Pingback: Weekly Round Up - The Predictable Riot Edition | The Church Sofa

  62. Phil Groom says:

    Challenging, disturbing, thought provoking: thank you. In our rural parishes of Henlow & Langford we seem a million miles away from all of this, but I suspect the same discontent and injustice that led to this is bubbling away not far beneath the surface…

  63. tanya fromely says:

    all ok but mostly written by people who r relatively privileged. certainly the person who wrote this does not know how awful salix homes are. i am more inclined to agree with le monde – french newspaper> British youngsters are not educated politically, so they feel angry about their oppression but they are unable to articulate it – and do not know the proper channels through which to do this.
    BRING BACK YOUTH AND COMMUNITY WORKERS – GIVE BACK THEIR FUNDING – even God would agree

    • @Tanya..hey there. Appreciated your comments: not saying anything about the quality of a Salix home, just that it’s better to have one than not – have worked with too many homeless young people and sofa surfers to see how soul-destroying it is not to have a roof over your head.

      You are spot on about the articulation of oppression – I thought I was trying to make that clear in my blog, but obviously not! Hear, hear to the Youth and Community workers, but rest assured that there are many in this community who are coming together to see how we might be able to work with young people and give them a better road to travel.

  64. Julie Finch says:

    Hi Hayley,
    I appreciated your blog about the Salford riots as one of those who watched with shock (and disgust) on TV it has helped me understand – a little – what happened. I’m so glad you are safe and maybe, just maybe your presence (put there within the safe arms of God) stopped a few in their tracks and made them think….
    We do have a 2 or even 3 tier society and its so sad – I used to work with young people (da yoof) a while ago and it seems nothings changed. :(
    Attitudes are also ingrained and they need work too – from the people who hold them to those who would help them.
    Luv Jx

  65. This is a smart blog. I mean it. You have so much knowledge about this issue, and so much passion. You also know how to make people rally behind it, obviously from the responses. Youve got a design here thats not too flashy, but makes a statement as big as what youre saying. Great job, indeed.

  66. Pingback: Rally round the family with a pocket full of shells…because there will be no pictures of you and Willie May pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance | …nothing

  67. Pingback: Rally round the family with a pocket full of shells…because there will be no pictures of you and Willie May pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance | …nothing

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